'What is enlightenment?' magazine - Andrew Cohen and his students are too busy investigating questions of practical philosophy to get Enlightened.

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I tell it a slightly different way..".Wake up" ...~tickle ~tickle

[Oshana] Dear Vicky, I love your questions. But how many more do you have?

[Vicky] as you can imagine...I 've got some responses to your last mails...well, where to start...

[Oshana] This is the most important question of all. It's a shame to skip it and get involved in all the other ones...but here we go -------->

[Vicky] You said life takes care of itself...well yes, that's true but still we are the doer and we decide how to go on in life, right?

[Oshana] Of course, that is not the viewpoint of Ramesh Balsekar and friends - they most decidedly state that there is `no doer'. Some Papaji people - and Andrew was one - say that there should be `no doer' upon Awakening - that's an interpretation straight out of the Bhagavad Gita - but that doesn't matter here.

But Awakening itself should be the real issue, nein?

I am sure you are doing your best to live the best life possible. What is so special about your "How to live" question that you have to go public about it? Doesn't everyone constantly adjust the way that they live?

Maybe you can help me understand your question a little bit better?

[Vicky] Or do you think, there is some sweety angel sitting on a cloud telling your 'consciousness' what to do next?

[Oshana] Yes, actually I do. I'm glad you reminded me. Do you put stars atop of your Christmas trees? We use fairies. Next you're be telling me Santa Claus does not exist. :-)

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[Vicky] So, "HOW do we life?" is for me a very down to earth question. I really do mean it, because so far all these different role models etc.pp. didn't really work. Or did they? Shouldn't we evolve a little bit? :-))

[Oshana] Yes, we could.

I used to be the patient in the "Doctor's &Nurses" game as a child. I think I have enough years under my belt (and fortunately not over it) to `evolve' my *role* to at least Helipraktor - or whatever is the correct spelling for an alternative health practitioner over there in Germany.

[Vicky] The last issue of the magazine: 'What is enlightenment?'goes into this question in depth. (Doing some promotion here, but it really is a great >magazine!)

[Oshana] I finally read the WIE Advaita issue from a few years back just after I awoke. It was good to see that others were saying the same thing in their own way - but I have grown tired of reading. Now life is my teacher, and I tell it a slightly different way. I am happy with that because people are waking up - without much effort - I might emphasise. I hope this does not offend anyone with a Protestant Work Ethic.

[Vicky] Don't you think that our actions should reflect our state of being?? They do anyway...

[Oshana] You have answered that one for yourself. If we look at it logically then it must be so. But first tell me: "what is Being - for you"?

[Vicky] Somehow your different answers give me the feeling that you think, that it doesn't matter what we do. I do not think that.

[Oshana] Of course, it does matter what we do - it affects the quality of life for oneself and others. That is my view - please do not confuse my view with inferior ones - or we will have a heresy before we know it! :-)

[Vicky] It is a very known fact in the spiritual world that some well known enlightened persons did quite some destructive and selfish things. What do you think about that?

[Oshana] Well, I don't know if I know them. But it might be possible that they did. Personally, I do not like "destructive things" - that's why people should come and eat with me, and get enlightened.

[Vicky] What do you think about Ego death?

[Oshana] I say Rest-in-Peace. What do you mean?

[Vicky] Also, you make a distinction between Being and Life, isn't that the same????

You said: "...How this earthly Life is lived is not directly related to Enlightenment..." How can that be? It sounds as we wouldn't be living anymore when we are enlightened...isn't it more the case that we are even more involved with Life?

[Oshana] Well you said it yourself "some well known enlightened persons did quite some destructive and selfish things". How do you explain that?

Actually, if you look at what the whole of what I wrote:

"We are already in relationship with it [Life]. How this earthly Life is lived is not directly related to Enlightenment - but it can enhance one's earthly experience of Life."

What I was saying was that Enlightenment is not affected by how you live (or how the world lives, either). But your experience is affected by how you live.

To answer the question I think you are asking: Enlightenment always exists. But when Consciousness crashes into, and blows open, the Mind, then that could make a lifestyle change. But I see no reason why it `must' - it just has in my case. (See how I give so freely my time?)

That `relationship', I referred to, is one of Oneness not Two-ness. Therefore, Being is Life.

[Vicky] Okay, I realize I put out already quite some questions here...I really do enjoy our conversation...hope you are happy answering them too...

[Oshana] Yes, but I want you to wake up. I am being extra-ordinarily patient with you. :-)

[Vicky] What I would like to know from you why you find Andrew abstract? I know him since 1994 and I never met anybody like that 'hands on' and totally real. But of course, he has his own approach.

[Oshana] I was clearly referring to his writing style, though I have found his speaking style similar. I said:

"His descriptive writing skills are good but some of his stuff is too abstract to be useful from my point of view."

I have not the time at present to read Andrew to find some abstract quotes. I prefer to answer your questions - and for you to get Enlightened!

[Vicky] I appreciate your opinion, could you please explain what you mean with:"... (Andrew)don't finish the business of seeking Awakening" In which way, what do you mean? What is needed to finish the business of Awakening?

[Oshana] I heard that Andrew he has no permanently Awakened students. Did he claim that?

My concern would be that Andrew Cohen and his students are too busy investigating questions of practical philosophy to get Enlightened.

[Vicky] What is needed to finish the business of Awakening?

[Oshana] Ohhhh...I'm too tired to say, now. My throat is dry from speaking to you through this computer screen. I have been answering your question, I think, in many similar emails on egroups.

Ok, I know! Bring me two bottles of mineral wasser, one for me and one for you. Before you have drunken one litre of water I will have shown you. OK?

[Vicky] Well, I hope there is still some hope for me then, since I've been with such a teacher for so long already...and, I actually really love running marathons!!

[Oshana] I know. I can tell. You have hope, and you will get there.

[Vicky] One last question:What is Bagua Zhang Tu'ina?

[Oshana] A Chinese Bodywork taught as a component of an art-form similar to Tajiquan.

[Vicky] Your question to me: "..Just one question on 'spiritual evolution': Does Consciousness evolve or it it always the Same?"

[Oshana] This IS an ABSTRACT question to me!

[Vicky] How do I know! Oshana, I really had to laugh on this....

[Oshana] That is how I teach, i.e. with (your) laughter

[Vicky] Consciousness IS Evolution, AND stays always the same.

[Oshana] It's one or the other, Vicky. I would like you to choose, as if your life depended on it (Andrew would say something like that, nu?)

[Vicky] It's a mind bender but my true experience...

[Oshana] is...is...is...

[Vicky] take care, Love Vicky

[Oshana] ...is...oh - you've gone

well, take care and lots of love, and if you feel like doing marathons - go all the way - to London.

Love Oshana

[Source: Oshana Mailing List]