It's a chicken and egg paradox what comes first: the end of seeking or the beginning of finding - they might even be simultaneous.

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See-ing Self the way, not "not-See-King"

[Oshana] Dear Gloria,

[Gloria] Brace yourself, but you did actually say something helpful that was not "in person" but here on the list. Now it's not that I doubt your magical presence is far better, but in view of this ocean between us, might you attempt to answer with words here?

[Oshana] May I ask, for no reason in particular [:-)] which part of you did it 'help' and how?

[Gloria] First, I totally agree and understand your saying that it is only the mind that is the seeker, and the self is already perfectly awake and needs nothing more. (Those 4 unholy p's are cute and catchy too.) That is a totally brilliant observation, would you go so far as to add that the seeking is preventing the finding?

[Oshana] That would be logically inconsistent for an Old Greek man, says my mate Aris, because there can be no finding, and there is no seeking. That's what I said before, i.e. that there no real seeking.

It's a chicken and egg paradox what comes first: the end of seeking or the beginning of finding - they might even be simultaneous. Nonetheless this is all speculation.

In fact, I can now reveal for the *first time* in Spiritual Every- story, that both see-king and not-see-king is *not* the way, but See- ing Self the way. That's what happens with my associates...so it must be true.

[Gloria] It does seem like ye olde mind continues to come up with endless questions and yes buts. Since some if not many of us spend a great deal of our time on other email lists as well, which are mostly nothing but minds playing with words, do you know any end runs around the mind? Or must one wrestle it to the ground?

[Oshana] It's probably better to go for a walk and end up in the UK and see me {Look, if Mr. de Ruiter can strongly suggest that a famous Satsang teacher should come to Edmonton because he is 'more or less, more and less' than him (see the Isaac Shapiro transcript), and Andrew Cohen that people should join his community, I can at least invite humble seekers for a jasmine tea and a quick Awakening, right?}

[Gloria] Seriously you know, I sometimes wonder if we aren't just "feeding the monster" with endless, time wasting discusssions that lead the mind to think it is getting somewhere at last.

[Oshana] That commonly happens, which is why I stay out of tedious discussions and repeatedly make invitations.

[Gloria] Tho I do know a few people who are truly good at both speaking from and to self, so maybe it's just my own limitations that frustrate me with this. Yeah, isn't that always the case? Anyway Oshana, just looking for some helpful household hints here on communications skills.

[Oshana] The real You has no limitations. What is it that frustrates you and what do you want to communicate?

With love, Gloria

[Oshana] Gloria is Replying to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oshana/message/85

love Oshana

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