Awakening happens around an Awakened Person
Discussion after meeting at the Den
[Oshana] Namaste Ma Prem S....!
[S...] I was at your Enlightenment talk at the Den last week. I find this very interesting as I have been in India for two years working for a woman called Dolano. She is one of the greatest enlightened masters in the world at the moment- very clear of confusion.
[Oshana] Yes, I have heard about her. I know someone who goes to my meeting who really liked her.
[S...] So I see that you have seen a reflection of Who Am I. Fantastic. But you are taking on a great responsibility to be trying to enlighten others.
[Oshana] Can't help it. It won't hurt me, will it? Or others?
But it is like this- it is possible to know who you are but not be able to show others.
[Oshana] But it has happened already that people long time seekers from Pune 1 and Papaji have woken around me. I don't say that I know how but it feels OK.
[S...] In fact if an enlightened person talks ABOUT Truth instead of talking Truth itself this often leads to separation.
[Oshana] Yes, I very much agree with you. I see this a real issue. Working the night club is a bit like performing in Covent Gdn and working a crowd. I hope, I trust, that something good will come of it. That people will get the energy of what is happening and that will allow the mind to stop and see...for just a few moments and maybe forever.
[S...] Separation is already there.
For example, if a diciple asks the master "What about death?" and the master says "I am no longer afraid of death", the diciple will start thinking "But I am afraid of death so I am not enlightened" and separation will occur.
[Oshana] Yes, it leads to pressure and also the thought "I am not enlightened" which is an issue if the Master is saying "You are enlightened".
[S...] Another example is that masters often say "This life is not real. You are not the body, you are not the emotions". But when you are in Samsara, you cannot belive this and you TRY to believe it, you try to DO enlightenment. But it cannot be done. Only separation occurs.
[Oshana] Yes, it can't be done. Life is real but changeable.
[S...] You were trying to give that girl (who incidentally was on acid) an EXPERIENCE of enlightenment. Now the definaition of an experince is that which comes and gos.
[Oshana] Hopefully, she could get something that would not go. I'd settle for having an experience but that really is not the aim.
[S...] Everything in this play of Leela (life in manifest form) comes and gos. We all know about the rising and falling waves of experineces. Bliss comes, then depression. We are high on drugs, then we come down. We fall in love, then we break up. We are born then we die. Those ready to wake up are only those who are tired of clinging to the rise and fall of waves.
[Oshana] Good description.
[S...] Satsang is to turn attention away from the rise and fall of the waves and to see what is eternal, unchanging, what we have always overlooked. In the analogy of the sea, instead of clinging to the waves, we look at the water. Instead of trying to bring about an experince of love, we see that we are all the love. Instead of trying to get an experince of god, we see that we are god. Instead of trying to bring about an experience of bliss, we know that we are all the bliss. Satchitanada.
[Oshana] But that turning can't be 'done'. I wrote an email saying that 'doers' tend to take description as a prescription.
[S...] So how can you try to give someone an "experience of enlightenment"? It is not possible! It is an experience of no experience at all. If anyone experiences Enlightenment, it is simply a reflection and it will fall off. It is time to look beyond experiences. Mind must be silent and just look. Out of not knowing we know.
[Oshana] I agree. But sometimes it can happen that a person does go into that 'no-idetification-with-experiences' place
[S...] You cannot tell someone to stop being who they think they are (their personality, name etc etc), because they will just try and try to do the impossible. Instead we point them to Truth. We point them to investigate who they really are. There will be a laughter at the recognition and the belief of who they thought they were will simply fall off.
[S...] You talked about energy and psychic experiences. Who Am I is not energy, and is not even touched by energy. Who Am I is eternal. Energy rises and falls. Lets look beyond the rising and falling of energy, Truth itself.
[Oshana] Agreed. Energy and psychic stuff is important to people as a bridge and some need to know about it simply because it is there but for Liberation it is not necessary
[S...] It is one thing to have seen Truth. It is another thing altogether to be able to help others see Truth.
What to say. I feel that Awakening happens around an Awakened Person - in my experience
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